Dialogue with Lauren Cahn About Matching Interests and Desires with Needs and Abilities

So Lauren Cahn wrote in a comment on What Is A Yoga Practice Anyway? Parts 1 & 2 and I thought her comments were very worth looking at. There is a lot she presents that is worth examining more closely. I like her presentation so much that I will present it in its entirety before commenting on it.

Lauren wrote:

Very interesting, Carl! There was a lot to think about, but I was particularly struck by this statement: "In “Yogis Behaving Badly” we can see that the intentions of the teacher are not always in line with the needs of the student."

I don't think that it necessarily follows that a student with a healthy balance of need, desire and, let's just call it, "reality checking" and self-acceptance, is going to be able to avoid injury all the time. Particularly in Ashtanga, there is a risk that the teacher will "help" the student to move master a pose in such a way that the student ends up pushing beyond his or her then-limitations (I call then "then-limitations" because limitations are ever-in flux). I don't see that much of this in Vinyasa, but I have heard of it. But I have experienced it in Ashtanga. The teacher's intentions are all good. But one day, the student's body is a little different from the way it was the day before...and suddenly the same adjustment that worked the day before sets the stage for some post-practice OUCH. Or worse.

In my case - I got hurt in a Mari D Adjustment, not because the teacher didn't understand my limits, but because my limits that day were quite different from my limits on other days. I didn't feel or notice the difference myself that day. I only realized it in retrospect, when I was in pain. An if I didn't realize my body was different that day, how could my teacher?

I think that this is something that could happen between any teacher and any student, unfortunately, although I do believe it would be less likely outside of an Ashtanga practice, where "getting" a pose has so much less significance and "YEAH BABY!!" surrounding it...

My Response:

I think Lauren is making some good points about the teacher’s intentions and the changing needs of the practitioner. I think these are very tricky issues. Lauren points out astutely that a teacher could have good intentions and their actions could still have a negative impact. I want to qualify something. A person can be trying to practice yoga and not actually be practicing yoga in a way that is right for them which by definition would mean that they were not exactly practicing yoga. A teacher could also have good intentions and they may not be in line with the students needs.

I think the Yoga Sutras has more to say about where things often can go wrong. Sutras 1.5-1.11 discuss and explain the activities of the mind. Sutra 1.5 is important because it explains that any of the activities of the mind (including misunderstanding) can have a beneficial or negative impact. The two activities of the mind that are important for this discussion are: correct understanding and misunderstanding. Most of what we humans do is based on misunderstanding.

Lauren said: “there is a risk that the teacher will "help" the student to move master a pose in such a way that the student ends up pushing beyond his or her then-limitations”

I think one of the places where Lauren may have misunderstood what I am talking about is in her understanding of the abilities and limitations of the student. To address this I want to look at her use of the term “then limitations”. There is something I really like here. Lauren is attempting to express that our limitations change. But I am not so sure that the term “then limitations” expresses what Lauren means all that clearly.

First I will address the idea of limitations. Our abilities and our limitations are two parts of one thing. Where our abilities come to an end our limitations begin. It is like looking at a cup of water. Is it half empty or half full? And if you are consistently looking at what you can do with your body based on your limitations it could lead to a pretty negative body image. So, for now let’s simply acknowledge that when we are looking at our abilities we are looking at the positive aspects of our limitations and vice versa. When she uses the term “then” I believe Lauren is referring to something that could be expressed as: at the time of practice, or currently. So instead of “then limitations” I am going to refer to our current abilities and our current limitations. Now obviously the abilities of a student are his/her abilities at the current time of practice and the limitations of the student are the limitations at the current time of practice. So if a student is practicing based on yesterdays abilities, but today the student’s abilities are different, then the student is not actually practicing based on his/her abilities at the time of practice, which means the student is not practicing based on his/her actual abilities at that moment. So if a student ends up pushing past his/her current limitations to “master” a pose, that student is not staying within his/her abilities or respecting his/her limitations. So, by definition, the scenario Lauren presents is one in which a practitioner is no longer practicing within his/her abilities. Of course this happens but it is unfortunate. Now something worthwhile that can be extracted from Lauren’s comment is that the student and the teacher may not actually know or understand what those boundaries are. Now we have something to work with. The idea here is that it is an art to learn how to stay within your abilities when you are trying to practice. And often people who practice by trying to push past their limitations get away with it for a while but are practicing in this way habitually and unfortunately this will eventually catch up to them.

Lauren said: “I don't think that it necessarily follows that a student with a healthy balance of need, desire and, let's just call it, "reality checking" and self-acceptance, is going to be able to avoid injury all the time.”

IF A STUDENT IS PRACTICING WITHIN HIS ABILITIES AND MEETING HIS OR HER ACTUAL NEEDS IT IS NOT POSSIBLE, EVER, TO CREATE INJURY. There really is no way to do exactly what you need, and keep what you are doing within your actual abilities and have it not be what you need and not be within your abilities. Now this being said, it would follow that if, you are moving towards your goals and practicing towards what you desire, while keeping the work in line with your actual, CURRENT, needs and abilities, then of course, it is not possible to get hurt. The unfortunate thing is that very few people ever practice in this way. Which means that, based on what the Yoga Sutras says, very few people are actually practicing Yoga! They might be trying to practice yoga but that is different than practicing Yoga. I am going to try and rephrase what I think Lauren’s actual point is: given the way in which the popular style of yoga called Ashtanga is currently taught in our culture, it can be a real challenge to keep up this kind of practice, move towards mastery of the postures and stay within one’s current abilities. So the important question here might be: how does one practice while keeping the work within one’s abilities? Pattabhi Jois and the Yoga Sutras might be able to answer this.

If a teacher is confused as to a student’s abilities on a given day, because of expectations that are based on performance on a different day then the teacher is not actually connecting with the student in front of him/her. Unfortunately this happens, but this is the teacher not being focused on the current situation and not accepting the current reality of things. For the student the same can be said. If a practitioner is basing the way he/she thinks he/she is supposed to be able to perform a posture on what he/she had been doing yesterday and brings him/herself into a position that is beyond his/her current abilities on that given day, then this would mean the practitioner is not respecting his/her own boundaries and limitations. Which would be out of line with Sutra 1.12 abhyasavairagyabhyam tannirodah: practice without attachment to the goals of practicing is necessary. And this would also not be in line with the meaning of isvarapranidhanadva as in Sutra 2.1: that practice should be done with an understanding and acceptance that there are things beyond your control. Trying to achieve a posture from the perspective of conscious, willful force and not acknowledging your current abilities and limitations is counter to accepting where you are and being where you are. For this to happen you also have to be practicing without much self awareness at that current moment in time when the injury occurs. This would be out of line with the svadhyaya aspect of Sutra 2.1. Often when a person is overly focused on the goal of achieving the external form of a posture that for him/her takes extreme effort, there will be a lack of self reflective awareness.

Now, because it sounds like what has been said about Ashtanga could give Pattabhi Jois a bad name I am going to let him speak for himself. But before I do that I will state that, first off, I think the Ashtanga method, of practice, based on Pattabhi Jois’s instruction and depth of knowledge, is an excellent and incredibly thoughtful system even though it is not appropriate for everyone. That being said, there are many people who have studied with Pattabhi Jois and are teaching Ashtanga whose knowledge is incomplete. I don’t think there is anything wrong with this. But it is worth noting that a highly trained teacher, the most skillful teacher, could, because he/she is human, be operating under a misunderstanding of the student or the practice at any given moment; and this statement does not necessarily say anything that should reflect badly on the person’s intentions or the quality of that person’s teaching. A teacher can misunderstand the student in front of him at any given moment and still be a good teacher. It happens all the time to the best of teachers. And all it takes is the teacher to misunderstand things for one small moment for something injurious to occur.

Now here are some quotes from Pattabhi Jois’s book. My understanding is that if you follow the instructions he gives in his book carefully it is hard to go too far off the path.

“For all the asanas, the details of their breathing and vinyasa methods, as well as of how to remain in their states in accordance with the vinyasa method, have to be learned from a Guru. Whatever my descriptions here, there will always be a difference in the actual methods of a practice.” (P. 77 of Yoga Mala by Sri K Pattabhi Jois).

Pattabhi Jois is talking about the need to adapt the practice to the current needs of the individual.

I am going to quote something about Krishnamacharya’s teaching, (Krishnamacharya was Pattabhi Jois’s Guru). This comes from the back cover of The Heart of Yoga by T. K. V. Desikachar and I think it is pertinent here as it illuminates what Pattabhi Jois is saying above:

“Desikachar has based his method on Krishnamacharya’s fundamental principle: the practice must be continually adapted to the individual’s changing needs in order to achieve the maximum therapeutic value.”

If the practice is not adapted to the actual needs of the student at the time of practice, there is the potential for a negative impact. It seems that these statements address the issue of practicing based on the idea of what you were able to do on a previous day and are no longer able to do at the current time. They also address the idea of how different people need different instructions and need to practice in different ways. Directions that might be appropriate for one practitioner might cause harm to another. Directions that worked for a practitioner one day might cause harm the next.

“…they should be practiced under the tutelage of a benevolent Satguru. This I repeat over and over again in order that aspirants will remember it.” (Yoga Mala p. 104).

Now he really does emphasize that a practitioner should learn from a qualified teacher again and again. My guess is that this would ensure that the practice is matched to the needs of the student. I am not sure exactly what he means by the term “Satguru” but I know when I have heard Desikachar use the term it was not referring to a run of the mill yoga teacher. He was using the term as one of reverence, and one that meant the person it referred to was absolutely competent in his/her subject. In other words it implied a sense of mastery of that teacher’s particular subject.

If I had the time I would find all the quotes I wanted to from Yoga Mala but unfortunately I don’t. There was one quote where Pattabhi Jois says that if the postures are practiced correctly, you will get better, but if they are practiced incorrectly things get worse. That sounds pretty straight forward to me. If you are practicing a posture in a way that is not right for you, you could get injured. If it makes things better it was Yoga if it does not it was practice based on a misunderstanding somewhere along the line. Pattabhi Jois sounds pretty clear that what makes things worse was not actually Yoga. Desikachar is pretty clear on this as well. It does make sense. One might be attempting to practice yoga and there might be a flaw in the techniques of practice that prevent it from actually achieving that quality that would cause it to deserve the term Yoga.

At some point he also says that if you have the wrong focus in practice bad things will happen. He says a practitioner should be focused and concentrating on both the body and the breath at the same time. Too much focus on the body without the proper focus on the breath will lead to bad things. Focusing too intently on achieving a posture without regard to the breath can lead to injury. Too much focus on the breath without regard to what you are doing with your body will lead to bad things as well according to Jois. This sounds pretty much in line with Krishnamacharya’s teaching. It also sounds pretty much in line with the Yoga Sutra’s explanation of asana. Sutra 2.46 says sthirasukhamasanam: The postures should have the dual qualities of sthira and sukham; sthira=strong without unnecessary tension, a sense of power and alertness, sukham= relaxedness, softness, comfort and enjoyability without laziness. The Yoga Sutras explains the way in which you should achieve this state of relaxed power in the very next Sutra. Sutra 2.47 says that the practitioner should be focused on the reactions of the body and the breath and the practitioner should be looking to remove unnecessary tension from both. The breath should be able to be long, smooth and relaxed. For it to be an actual Yoga posture you would need to be able to stay in it comfortably for a sustained period of time. This would be in line with both Krishnamacharya’s and Pattabhi Jois’s teaching of asana.

Now I think this next quote is really the big one concerning this issue. If you are following this direction it is more than hard to go wrong. On page 85 of Yoga Mala, Pattabhi Jois describes the method for practicing Marichyasana (D). Here are his words.

“Sit, bending the arms and legs as in Marichyasana (B), turn the waist, bring the left arm around the front of the right knee and around toward the back, as in Marichyasana (C), bring the right arm around the back and take hold of the left wrist with the right hand, turn the waist fully, lift the chest, doing rechaka (exhale) and puraka (inhale) SLOWLY AND DEEPLY, as much as possible; this is the 7th vinyasa. In the same manner, practice the above for the left leg.”

I want to make it clear that I included the terms “exhale” and “inhale” which are in parenthesis for clarification; they are translations of the Sanskrit terms rechaka and puraka. They are not in the original text although in earlier passages they are translated. I also want to note that I capitalized the descriptive phrase “slowly and deeply” for emphasis. Earlier in the text, Pattabhi Jois makes it clear that the term “as much as possible” means for as many breaths as possible although using as much as possible to mean for as long as possible is not the most expressive use of the English language. This is another quote I wish I had the time to look up. In it he says that for someone who is practicing every day it is usually enough to do five inhales and five exhales for most of the postures but that the quality should be such that the person could remain in the pose for what basically amounts to an unlimited amount of time; I think he said 300 breaths. He actually says you should be able to stay for this long. He also stresses that the quality of the breath and the technique must be learned by a qualified teacher. All this sounds completely in line with Krishnamacharya’s teaching and that fundamental principle that the practice needs to be continually adapted to the current needs of the individual. It is really hard to be in a posture for an extended period of time, taking long, deep, slow, relaxed, powerful, full breaths without belonging in the posture. When you don’t belong in a posture it is really hard to fake this. My guess is that this is where many practitioners go wrong when practicing postures like Marichyasana D, and many of the other challenging asanas. They think that because they have achieved the shape they belong even though they are unable to stay with comfort and keep the appropriate attention to the body and breath that is required. But if you really follow Pattabhi Jois’s directions it is hard to go wrong.

Pattabhi Jois is a great teacher but not all of the people teaching Ashtanga in the west fully understand the whole breadth and scope of his teaching. I have a friend who used to take Ashtanga classes all over the city, sort of searching for the right place for her to practice. After years of what she now describes as abuse she ended up taking with Pattabhi Jois. Her instant reaction was: “I never even realized how much these teachers were pushing us around and how out of place it was. When I took with Pattabhi Jois it was so powerful, but so relaxed and gentle at the same time. All of a sudden, the practice made so much more sense; it fit like a glove.” This is someone for whom the practice of Ashtanga is appropriate but she still needed the right teacher. The true and great teachers of Ashtanga have this quality. If you want to do this kind of practice my best recommendation is that you have to choose your teachers carefully. The practice should really fit you like a good glove or like comfortable form fitting clothing tailored to your exact dimensions. Any rigidity, any stiffness, any getting stuck in where you were yesterday and bad things can happen. I have heard David Swenson talk about how it is worth thinking in terms of decades rather than years in terms of moving towards the full expression of the postures.

One of Pattabhi Jois’s favorite jokes which so many of his students who teach like to imitate is the one with counting. My understanding is that this is at least partially to keep people honest and make them know a little more about themselves in their practice. He chooses hard poses for the joke. Almost everyone is struggling to stay and breathe in the posture; their breath is shortening. They are waiting for him to say 5 so they can move on to the next posture as soon as possible. He has a smile on his face. He does not tell them anything. He just says, 1,…. 2,…. 3,…. 4,…. 4,…. 4,…. 4,…. 4,…. 7,…. 9,…. 11,….. 15,…. 27,…. 5. You better believe he knows who was relieved to get out of the pose and who actually belonged there when he does something like that.

I guess the last thing I want to say is about hands on adjustments. They are useful to a point, but they are often misused. I personally feel that a hands-on adjustment should not bring a student into a pose that the student does not really belong in. You could think about this in terms of the yamas and niyamas. You don’t want to lie to yourself or your students if you are a teacher. You don’t want to steal something that does not belong to you. You don’t want to acquire things that you don’t need because that little green monster that says “I need Marichyasana D” is called greed. It is clear that the Yoga Sutras says things about practicing in this way. But all you have to do is follow Pattabhi Jois’s directions. If you can stay in the pose and breathe comfortable, long, slow, relaxed, deep breaths for as long as possible, say 200 breaths, you belong in the pose.

I am going to use an analogy. When you go to a playground and see toddlers, there are a lot of parents, you know, the A type personalities, who are grabbing their child’s hands and trying to force them to walk. You watch the child and it is obvious he or she just wants to get back down on the ground and crawl. But the parent is determined; his or her child is going to be walking early. There are studies on developmental movement which show that this is extremely damaging to the healthy development of a child. Often children who have this type of thing done to them wind up having problems with physical development but also with emotional and psychological development. These are often problems that last into adulthood and usually are never properly addressed. And the irony of it is that the actual development that the child needed for walking was happening on the ground when the child was crawling. The coordination needed for the more complex skill is being learned in the less complex skill.

Now I personally am willing to say that a little bit of hands on guidance might be really useful when it is appropriate and when the child is ready. I would also say that when a parent is doing something like trying to push their child to develop more quickly, that the parent’s intentions were probably not bad; in fact I am confident that they were doing the wrong things for all the right reasons. The intentions were just misguided. Nevertheless, too much of an attempt to speed up the child’s development, if it is done at the wrong time, before the child is ready for it, can be extremely damaging.

Point by point, I would say the same exact things about hands on adjustments in a yoga practice. I want to emphasize this point:

Just like crawling, usually in yoga the skills that a student needs to develop in order to be able to do the more complex physical work would be most beneficially accomplished in simpler variations of similar kinds of movements.

And I know too many yoga practitioners who have been injured by hands-on adjustment that were well meant by a teacher who was not quite acknowledging where the student was on that particular day. I also know way too many yoga practitioners who allow themselves to attempt to push themselves beyond their abilities as they try and blast through their current limitations because of the strength of their desire to reach their goals as quickly as possible.

Sutra 3.6 says tasya bhumisu viniyogah: the practice should unfold in a careful and thoughtful manner, very gradually, step by step, over time, in the way that is right for the individual at the current time of practice.

Habits and Patterns of Behavior

This basic idea comes from my experience of the teachings of T. K. V. Desikachar.

So if Yoga is largely about awareness and habits are actions and patterns of behavior that we do without awareness then a person has to work hard to keep his/her yoga practice a few steps ahead of his/her habits. As creatures of habit we tend to fall into unconscious tendencies of thought, movement and action in our practice and when this happens it is not all that likely that there will be the high degree of self reflective awareness necessary to consider what we are doing a Yoga practice.

What Is A Yoga Practice Anyway? Parts 1 & 2

This was originally posted to e-Sutra, the moderated world wide yoga e-mail discussion list, a few years ago. I wrote this in response to several different threads that had popped up at the time. Leslie Kaminoff has also recently created a blog version of e-Sutra. I would say that e-Sutra is worth checking out.

enjoy.
upsidedowncarl@yogascope.com
www.yogascope.com

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What is a Yoga Practice Anyway? Part 1

From: Carl Horowitz

It seems to me that there are a few separate threads going on that have some connection. Let’s see if we can put some of this together and create a new thread.

In the “Yoga By Colors” thread Eddie Stern made a very interesting point about how there is nothing wrong with giving practitioners some sense of achievement. He was not endorsing the belt system but acknowledging that creating a sense of purpose and accomplishment can motivate the practitioner and stimulate his/her interest. This is a very good point.

{{upsidedown editor's comment: in the e-Sutra "thread", "Yoga By Colors" the discussion was about a belt system that someone had come up with, similar to the belt system in Karate, to determine the level of the student. As you can imagine, the "Yoga By Colors" thread and the idea of students wearing belts to determine their state of "advancedness" caused a big response from the yoga community. :) Eddie was really the only person who was able to put his finger on a positive aspect of motivating students. And of course the guy who created the belt system that was being discussed had also determined that he, himself was a grand master and spiritually enlightened yoga practitioner and so, proclaimed himself as being the highest level of practitioner possible in his system! :) }}

However, finding the right tools to create a healthy sense of motivation can be more complicated than it may seem on the surface. Using the students desires to keep them interested and involved can sometimes become problematic. Here is the situation. You have four things that need to be balanced to help create an appropriate practice.

1) The interest of the student.
2) The desire of the student.
3) The abilities of the student.
4) And the needs of the student.

There is a relationship between interest and desire and a similar relationship between abilities and needs. If these four things are truly in balance practice will be interesting, fun, safe and effective.

However, if the interest and desire of the students are manipulated by a goal that is not in line with their needs and abilities then there will be problems. There will also be problems if the student’s desire creates an unhealthy attachment to the goals of practicing. This unhealthy type of attachment can often become an addiction. If you are addicted to your practice you may not be practicing the yoga that is right for you.

In “Yogis Behaving Badly” we can see that the intentions of the teacher are not always in line with the needs of the student.

In threads like “Is It An Opening/ Hiding Place,” and in Coeli’s article about Leslie Kaminoff and the yoga therapy work he is involved with, it is clear that there are people out there who are injuring themselves by practicing “yoga”.

If people are injuring themselves from practicing yoga then it is it is safe to say that their interests and desires are not being balanced appropriately with their needs and abilities.

And my questions for this thread are:

1) What is a yoga practice? What are the defining elements? What unifying principle can make asana, pranayama, visualization techniques, meditation, chanting and observance of yamas and niyamas all coherently be understood as different elements of one practice? Is there a unifying principle?

2) What kinds of benefits can you reasonably expect from a practice?

3) What are some of the things that are keeping people motivated to practice?

4) What kinds of things are people doing that they are injuring themselves?

Peace.
upsidedowncarl

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What Is A Yoga Practice Anyway? Part 2

From: Carl Horowitz

The answers to this thread have all been really good. But I guess I cannot resist making further comments because I am a silly person.

First: there is a difference between yoga and a yoga practice. The Yoga Sutras says that Yoga is a state where the activities of the mind have come to an end. Yoga can also be defined as connection, being linked to something, and therefore yoga can be defined as Relationship. And when you are in a state of relatedness to something or someone, when you are connected, the unnecessary activities of the mind cease and you merge with your experience.

Then what is a yoga practice? I like the simplicity with which Andrea stated it.

((…anything that you do regularly with enthusiasm that makes you feel good...))

That is pretty much it. But lets see if we lay this out in technical terms. Patanjali says: tapahsvadhyayesvarapranidhanani kriyayogah (Sutra 2.1). What does this mean? It means that the practice of yoga must contain these three things:

1) tapas: discipline that could create heat and will clear obstructions. This could simply be the discipline to bring yourself to a practice consistently as long as the practice helps create mental clarity or in other words as long as it makes things improve.

2) svadhyaya: self observation which leads to self awareness.

3) isvarapranidhana: this can mean many things: self surrender, surrender to god, reverence for a higher intelligence; or, for someone who does not believe in god, God or the gods it can be understood as: acceptance of our limitations and an understanding that there are things in the universe that are beyond our control. The concept conveys a quality of standing in awe before the mystery of life. The attitude expressed by isvarapranidhana is one of openness, availability, humility and gratitude.

Therefore, practicing yoga consists of discipline, self awareness and the understanding that there are things in the universe that are beyond your control.

These three things are the unifying principles that make it possible to understand all different aspects of yoga practice as part of one discipline. Whether you are chanting, meditating, doing an asana practice, a self purification ritual or doing good deeds, if it contains these three things at one and the same time it is a yoga practice.

Therefore, as Andrea said,

((It could be painting, gardening, playing with your children, loving your partner, doing yoga postures and breathing techniques.))

And Sutra 1.39 does say: yathabhimatadhyanadva which translates as: Any inquiry of interest can be used.

As Domagoj pointed out, self awareness is very important and in fact central to the process. My question now is, if a practice is truly based on discipline, self observation and acceptance of our limitations, then is it possible to injure yourself?

My personal understanding is that you can injure yourself trying to do someone else’s practice as Deborah put it. But I don’t think this is actually a yoga practice. To injure yourself there has to be a certain lack of self acceptance that would enable you to impose techniques that are inappropriate. You would have to be trying to force something on yourself while attempting to achieve something that is at least a little beyond your limits. This lack of self acceptance would indicate a lack of self awareness and it would also indicate a lack of isvarapranidhana in the practice. If you ignore where you actually are and impose your ideas of what you want on yourself then you are attempting to deny that there are things that are beyond your control. The concept of practice without attachment to the desired goals that Sutra 1.12 refers to is part of this concept of isvarapranidhana as well. And if you practice in this way then you will be safe and injury free.

It is not the exercises or techniques that make a practice yoga; it is tapahsvadhyayesvarapranidhana, while performing the techniques. So people do injure themselves when they TRY to practice based on a misunderstanding of what a yoga practice actually is, but if you are REALLY practicing yoga, if you are connected, I don’t think you can injure yourself.

What are the benefits you can realistically expect to gain from a yoga practice? Well this would depend on the person practicing, their goals and interests and the quality of the instruction they receive.

Peace.
upsidedowncarl@yogascope.com
www.yogascope.com